Let's take a moment and appreciate how good GM's performance lineup is

"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake) 09/16/2015 at 00:58 • Filed to: None

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Seriously, how incredible is 2016 going to be for GM?

At the top of the performance line there’s the C7 Z06:

650 horsepower of American fury that just dominated Car and Driver’s annual LIghtning Lap test. It took first place in a field that included a Lamborghini Huracan and a McLaren 650S. It set a lap time only 1.5 seconds behind a Porsche 918! Say what you will about GM quality, but you can’t deny that as far as performance goes the C7 Z06 is nearly impossible to beat.

Then there’s the Cadillac monsters: the CTS-V and ATS-V. Want a Corvette but like having rear doors? Well now you can own a Cadillac with the heart of a Corvette

On a budget? How about an ATS-V? Twin turbo V6 on a chassis that reviewers have heralded as one of the best sports car chassis in recent memory.

And if you like the ATS-V but wish it had a V8 you will soon be able to get the 455 hp LT1 on the same chassis in the lightest muscle car on the market: the 2016 Chevrolet Camaro

Don’t forget you can also get the thundah from down undah with a proper manual transmission: the Chevrolet SS. I saw a manual one a few weeks ago, they do indeed exist!

And this is all just cars that have been announced! 2016 should see the introduction of the next hot Camaro spied in camouflage today, we could see the oft-rumored Corvette Zora, and with the Sonic due for a refresh there’s potential for a European based replacement with a proper hot hatch a possibility.

Outside the performance cars 2016 should be a good year for GM with a new Spark, new Malibu, new Cruze, and new Volt all set to hit dealer lots in the next few months, and at Cadillac the top end CT6 should be a stunner.

71MGBGT Likes Subarus of Unusual Colors > Jayhawk Jake 09/16/2015 at 01:02

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And then there’s the Chrylstler lineup

It’s just sad

Birddog > Jayhawk Jake 09/16/2015 at 01:17

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Marry Me!

Kidding.. Or am I?

The “New” Spark interests me. Ford still has my heart with the Focus RS, ST and Fiesta ST. The General and Ma Mopar have nothing to compete.

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > Jayhawk Jake 09/16/2015 at 01:17

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man the Commodore looks dated in that line-up.. but I suppose it’s just a facelift of a 9 year old car.

Milky > 71MGBGT Likes Subarus of Unusual Colors 09/16/2015 at 01:25

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Comparing all of GM to Chrysler, seems legit.

IMO you’d have to compare Chrysler to Buick for that to make any sense.

boxrocket > Jayhawk Jake 09/16/2015 at 01:30

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C&D has been prophesizing the “Zora” (or equivalent) for decades; I’ll believe it when I see it.

Ford may not have as comprehensive a performance lineup in the $50-125k range (that we know of), but they’re massively more exciting and interesting vehicles overall. In contrast, the gm cars are mostly the same engines over a few platforms, which do have performance, but lack appeal and passion (and visibility outwards...). Meh.

Ford’s residual 2015s are already more intriguing than gm’s 2016s, and the best are still yet to come!

Rumors of a RWD sedan on a stretched Mustang platform, a Fiesta RS, and Fusion ST only sweeten the pot. Sure they’re FWD or FWD-based AWD, but they’re attainable and made to be used, not fawned over by old men who only bought them to reclaim a lost sense of youth, and try to justify the purchase by having meetings with fellow owners in similar self-denial.

Truth be told, as much as I like, appreciate, and respect Ford, I really want to see Mazda and Volvo get back into their mid-2000s ideology with having dedicated performance-focused range-toppers.

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > Jayhawk Jake 09/16/2015 at 01:31

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Unfortunately, the SS doesn’t make it to 2016. 2015 is the last year :(

citizennick > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 09/16/2015 at 02:08

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Such a bummer, too. I wonder if they would have caught on better if they offered a variety of packages for them?

citizennick > boxrocket 09/16/2015 at 02:12

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I drive Fords, but nothing beats the GM lineup currently. I’m no fanboy, I competition is a good thing. These two companies are pushing each other to make their cars better. Look at the lull the Mustang went through from 2002-2009 when the Camaro wasn’t around.

SVTyler > Birddog 09/16/2015 at 02:19

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Basically this. Chevy and FCA’s performance cars all cost above $40k, while Ford has 4 great cars you can get below that price.

71MGBGT Likes Subarus of Unusual Colors > Milky 09/16/2015 at 02:35

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Entirely true. Still, the fact that those are the entire line up is something.

m2m, apex detective > Jayhawk Jake 09/16/2015 at 03:00

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Let’s take a moment and appreciate how good GM’s performance lineup is

Now let’s take a moment and look at GM’s other cars. Wait, let’s not.

I completely agree with you, they have lots of appealing performance cars out at the moment. How much of their market is made up of these, though?

m2m, apex detective > 71MGBGT Likes Subarus of Unusual Colors 09/16/2015 at 03:01

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Now that you’re saying it ... all of them also look rather teary-eyed!

pip bip - choose Corrour > Jayhawk Jake 09/16/2015 at 04:54

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mmmmm. Commodore!

samssun > boxrocket 09/16/2015 at 05:35

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So Ford will offer an AWD compact with a turbo 4, and then relatively heavy cars with V8s. What’s missing is a reasonably sized AWD model with the TT 2.7 or 3.5. Basically a modern B5 S4, or budget M235xi.

Maybe the 3.5 is dreaming, but it belongs in something under 4k pounds. Even the 2.7 in an AWD Fusion would be a beast.

jjhats > Jayhawk Jake 09/16/2015 at 06:57

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While that's a good lineup ford is just better. Ford has a supercar a trophy truck and two hot hatches. And FCA as much as I hate them will take the crown in the next few years

spanfucker retire bitch > boxrocket 09/16/2015 at 07:27

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but lack appeal and passion

u WOT m8

spanfucker retire bitch > samssun 09/16/2015 at 07:28

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There’s a Fusion performance model coming. A photographer spied the test mule a few weeks ago.

spanfucker retire bitch > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 09/16/2015 at 07:29

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Uhh...no?

http://blog.caranddriver.com/fresh-faced-fo…

marshknute > Jayhawk Jake 09/16/2015 at 07:29

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It’s funny. Ford has nailed the lower end of the performance spectrum, while GM has nailed the upper end. Reading this really puts into perspective just how empty GM’s stable is in the sub-$30K market. At the very least, get a hot hatch (not a Spark, but a real FoST competitor) and the goddam Code 130R. GM won’t be a little bitch like Subaru and will gladly give a cheap RWD car a turbocharged engine.

I think the only let-down in GM’s existing lineup is the ATS-V. Its engine may be powerful, but that TTV6 is a soulless turd. Such a fantastic chassis ruined by a garbage engine. It’s the only reason it can’t beat the M3/M4 as the best all-rounder and everyone knows it.

FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem > Jayhawk Jake 09/16/2015 at 07:39

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You forgot GMs European offerings like the Corsa OPC/VXR, the Astra OPC/VXR and Insignia OPC/VXR.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > marshknute 09/16/2015 at 07:52

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The Code 130R was on the Alpha platform. Therefore we have a Caddy 130R with 2.0T (ATS) and a Chevy 130R with 2.0T (2016 Camaro).

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > m2m, apex detective 09/16/2015 at 07:54

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I don't know percentage-wise, but when the Camaro came back they sold more than they were expecting, so there is demand there. Besides, ain't that the point? Come to look at the Zo6 and while you're here we'll sell you a Cruze.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem 09/16/2015 at 07:56

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If they'd bring them over I promise I wouldn't complain about rebadging them as Buicks.

Jayhawk Jake > jjhats 09/16/2015 at 08:11

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The Z06 is for all intents and purposes a supercar, and the new Camaro should outperform the current Mustang.

GM doesn't have hot hatches in the U.S., and I focused on domestic market stuff, but the Astra VXR and Corsa VXR are pretty great by what I've read

nafsucof > Jayhawk Jake 09/16/2015 at 08:23

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I feel like ford will release a direct injected v8 coyote to compete power wise with the ss. Have weight numbers been released for the camaro ss yet? Are the v6 and i4t models lighter than mustang counterparts? Also Chevy needs a Cruze ss. They have the motor in the Malibu! The next couple of years is going to be great!

FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 09/16/2015 at 08:23

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Well, Buick offers the Insignia as Regal. And the Verano is basically an Astra sedan with a prettier face. Still kind of a missed chance to not offer the European performance models tho

Jayhawk Jake > boxrocket 09/16/2015 at 08:25

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While I’m not denying Ford’s lineup is good, I don’t know that it’s ‘better’.

In the latest tests the ATS outperformed the Mustang. The Camaro SS should therefore outperform the Mustang as well, and it weighs less. With the ZL1/Z28 due to come next year, the GT350 may not have long at the top of the muscle car food chain.

GM doesn’t have hot hatch options in the US, which is a shame. I’ll concede that point, though the Sonic RS is not a bad car (and I regularly outpace Focus ST’s at autocross in mine).

The GT looks cool and should be a good car, but extremely limited production and a likely astronomical asking price make me lose interest in a hurry. The Z06 is easily obtained and outperforms cars that cost twice as much, that’s incredible to me.

As far as GM cars lacking appeal and passion...what? No...

nafsucof > samssun 09/16/2015 at 08:25

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That is literally all over the car news: a fusion with quad pipes supposedly with the 2.7 turbo and awd ala S4.

Jayhawk Jake > marshknute 09/16/2015 at 08:28

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The ATS-V isn’t a let down I don’t think. It’s a shame there’s no V8, but that’s what the Camaro is for.

While I hate saying a carmaker needs to appease enthusiasts, bringing some hot hatches over would be nice.

BigBlock440 > 71MGBGT Likes Subarus of Unusual Colors 09/16/2015 at 08:28

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You’re missing a few...

You’ve got a ‘ring record holder, the Hellcats which are just the top engine of 3 different V8 options, a full-size pickup that’s quicker than Ford’s STs, and if we’re including the Raptor, the Power Wagon and Rubicon need to be on there.

jjhats > Jayhawk Jake 09/16/2015 at 08:29

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i personally don’t like calling the z06 a supercar on principle because it isn’t expensive enough, rare enough, mid engine enough, and built on an existing 50k sports car chassis. if mazda woke up tomorrow from their coma and swapped in a v6TT into the Miata and built up every other component to keep up with lambos I would have a really hard time calling that a supercar too. with all this said of course the z06 is incredible and can embarrass many supercars costing 2-3x as much

Jayhawk Jake > m2m, apex detective 09/16/2015 at 08:30

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Okay. New Malibu looks great, New Volt is getting great reviews, New Spark should be nice. The CT6 is coming and it’s going to be good, the non-performance ATS and CTS are great cars. The Silverado, Colorado, and GMC equivalents are good trucks...

Boring cars are boring. Ford’s non-performance lineup isn’t any more exciting that GM’s, neither is FCA’s.

Jayhawk Jake > FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem 09/16/2015 at 08:31

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Yeah, I kept it domestic. It would be really nice to bring those over.

Considering that the new spark is just an Opel Karl in disguise maybe the next Sonic will be an Astra with a VXR version? Please?

marshknute > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 09/16/2015 at 08:31

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I didn’t necessarily mean the platform, just a smaller/lighter Camaro that’s a 2-seater (or a 2+2). I’m not sure if they can make the Alpha narrower, but just shrinking the proportions adds up exponentially for weight savings since you’ve got that much less sheet metal.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem 09/16/2015 at 08:33

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That's really what I meant. Though while we're at it I would also like the Astra hatch.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > marshknute 09/16/2015 at 08:37

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Yes, they can (I think). I agree, a small Miata-type or BRZ-type sports car from GM would be awesome. But back to the 130R, my point stands. It's a 4-seater. ATS and Camaro are 4-seaters. They are on the same platform. To all intents and purposes, they (esp. the Camaro) are the production 130R.

BigBlock440 > SVTyler 09/16/2015 at 08:43

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Depends on what you consider performance. The Ram 1500 R/T is $35k and is quicker than both the FiST and FoST, all of the Challengers/Chargers are quicker and are only north of $40k when you get the 392 or the Hellcat and are RWD, There’s lots of options in the $25-40K range.

FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem > Jayhawk Jake 09/16/2015 at 08:45

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The Corsa is the European pendant to the Sonic. Just imagine it as a 192 hp Sonic with Recaros and Brembos.

marshknute > Jayhawk Jake 09/16/2015 at 08:46

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I don’t know, all the reviews seem to gloss over the ATS-V’s engine, and it’s really easy to tell that they’re underwhelmed.

All of GM’s recent V6’s have been competent, but they’re somehow cold and antiseptic. A BMW I6 is something special the way it smoothly delivers power. Then there’s Jaguar/Alpha who make us question why we would ever want more cylinders b/c their V6’s are just the sex. Those are all cars you buy because of their engines.

At the end of the day, the TTV6 just isn’t a compelling alternative to the LT1. Fuel economy is hardly better, it actually weighs more, and its way more complicated. Oh, and it sounds like crap.

FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 09/16/2015 at 08:46

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Chevy should’ve just brought the hatch and wagon Europe got

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem 09/16/2015 at 08:47

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Add GNX version to mirror VXR and we're there.

FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 09/16/2015 at 08:56

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The 2.8 turbo v6 is probably on its way out sadly. But a 325 hp awd sedan to rival the Audi S4 would make a great GN

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem 09/16/2015 at 09:00

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Recommend

m2m, apex detective > Jayhawk Jake 09/16/2015 at 09:28

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I’m just bitter, I’d have to pay ungainly sums to obtain any of those over here ... VAT and shipping would ruin what could normally be seen as a good proposition.

Had no real intention of bashing the lineup anyway.

Jayhawk Jake > marshknute 09/16/2015 at 09:44

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That doesn’t make it a let down, it’s just not the best engine.

Jayhawk Jake > nafsucof 09/16/2015 at 09:47

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They announced the weight numbers. Or at least the delta to last year’s models. All Camaros are lighter than their Mustang counterparts.

Jayhawk Jake > BigBlock440 09/16/2015 at 09:59

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I consider more than straight line speed for performance.

The Challenger is so friggin huge. It’s a mediocre performance car. I rented a Scat Pack manual for a weekend and autocrossed it. Brilliant motor, and that’s it.

SVTyler > BigBlock440 09/16/2015 at 10:16

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That’s a valid point but what I should’ve said was comparable models to what Ford has. The Ram may be quicker than either of the ST’s but I don’t really think anyone would cross-shop between the three of them and FCA’s other offerings in that price range besides the Abarth are muscle cars like the Challenger and Charger, not hot hatches or handling-oriented pony cars that could compete with a Focus ST or Mustang. Those kinds of cars were what I was talking about, just seems odd that only Ford builds a GTI/Mini Cooper S/WRX fighter when it’s a pretty popular market.

BigBlock440 > Jayhawk Jake 09/16/2015 at 10:19

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Boring cars are boring. Ford’s non-performance lineup isn’t any more exciting that GM’s, neither is FCA’s.

Again, depends on what you consider performance. Considering truck lines, Ford has the Raptor and Ram has the Power Wagon (I’m intentionally ignoring the Rebel). Going to cars, FCA has the Charger/Challenger/300, all over 300hp RWD vehicles, which you already said you don’t consider them performance but are definitely more exciting than GM’s 4-cylinder FWD offerings (Impala, etc). The 200 is a 300 hp AWD compact, and a minivan rounds out Chrysler’s line up. That leaves the Dart and Jeep to round out the “boring” cars.

BigBlock440 > SVTyler 09/16/2015 at 10:24

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Yeah, aside from Jeep, FCA doesn’t have hatchbacks. Even though Chrysler’s past hatchback offerings were fairly large sellers, they all seem to have a stigma attached to them now so I’m not sure we’ll see them again soon.

Shift24 > Jayhawk Jake 09/16/2015 at 10:24

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As a GM fan, it could be soo much better but GM is still too worried about expanding.

The Curze should have an SS version, the Sonic RS is bloated and not really a hot hatch and over priced, SS is gone this year and over priced for what it needed to sell (understandable though since it was a limited import), Camaro starting price just jumped, and no BRZ/FRS competitor.

Granted an automaker cant do everything but they should at least have an affordable performance car. The Sonic RS should be that solution but its not. The cheapest of that whole line up is $27K and thats for a base Camaro, the V8? $37K.

Ford has the lower price bracket with the hot hatches and FCA is just crazy. They do have a V8 Challenger for high $20s but the dart supposed to be the affordable car here and its no better that the sonic.

Jayhawk Jake > Shift24 09/16/2015 at 10:26

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The SS isn’t gone.

Shift24 > Jayhawk Jake 09/16/2015 at 10:45

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Meant 2016 model year. My mind has gone into 16 model mode even though 15s are still out there.

Jayhawk Jake > Shift24 09/16/2015 at 11:02

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I figured, and there will be one

wiffleballtony > Jayhawk Jake 09/16/2015 at 11:44

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What I wouldn’t do for that CTSV. My only complaint is apart from the Sonic RS there isn’t much exciting for the cheap seats.

BahamaTodd > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 09/16/2015 at 12:48

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This. GM got the Camaro down to 3500 lbs with 270 hp. Go any smaller and no one will buy it. The market for small RWD sports cars is very limited.

BahamaTodd > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 09/16/2015 at 12:51

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The SS will stick around until 2017.

BahamaTodd > Jayhawk Jake 09/16/2015 at 12:53

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And about to get even more exciting:

Jayhawk Jake > BahamaTodd 09/16/2015 at 13:08

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I mentioned it. That's going to be a monster

samssun > nafsucof 09/16/2015 at 20:46

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Ok I found the spy shot but seems like a toss-up between the 2.3 and the V6TT. I don’t want to get excited only to have my heart broken again. And I guess mounting it longitudinally is out of the question...

samssun > spanfucker retire bitch 09/16/2015 at 20:47

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If it’s just the 2.3 I’m not coming out of my room until spring.

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > spanfucker retire bitch 09/16/2015 at 21:49

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Sorry, had just read an article on a non-car site (mistake) calling it the final year and on Chevy’s website it’s the only car still showing only MY2015. I didn’t do much more research.

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > BahamaTodd 09/16/2015 at 21:49

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Sorry, had just read an article on a non-car site (mistake) calling it the final year and on Chevy’s website it’s the only car still showing only MY2015. I didn’t do much more research.